Fedi is on fire again, and I'm just going to say I'm very glad I'm on Treehouse. This instance and community has, by far, the most amazing mod/admin team I've ever seen. Stuff gets handled appropriately, with second opinions where needed and not letting things get personal. Response time for reports is often minutes. No leeway for Nazis and hateful instances, but no petty instance spats and gratuitous blocks either.

@marcan fedi is on fire again?

@tramtrist A self-proclaimed community leader is running a blocklist that is best described as a collection of collateral damage, and his recent takes have been going from bad to worse to inexcusable to outright vicious and appalling.

@marcan this kind of thing is the best and worst of growing this kind of network. No answers here but a constitution of sorts may be in order to tame our current articles of confederation . American phrases of course

@tramtrist Fedi is federated, there are no central rules. You can't fix this with rules.

The problem is the fundamental flaw of humanity that egotistical, self-centered, power-hungry people are most likely to put in the effort to ascend to positions of power, and if nobody catches on or they do so too late, they can cause great damage to communities.

@marcan i've been thinking about making secondary accounts on some more instances, maybe i'll join that one too

@marcan @tramtrist I made a post in which I explained my concerns politely, pinging him so we could talk things out. He responded with essentially a "you're friends with racists, fuck off" and then blocked me. Absolutely bonkers. https://ubiqueros.com/notes/9jys537ybm

@m @tramtrist Just earlier he compared tech.lgbt to KF, so yeah, that's where we're at right now.

Before that, someone politely pointed out to him that he screwed up the DNS for his instance (literally violating the RFC and the documentation of his own provider), breaking federation in some cases, and he responded by dismissing the report and mocking the people involved.

@marcan @m @tramtrist
##I first noticed this guy about a year ago. I thought I got malignant narcissist vibes from him and preemptively blocked him.

@marcan @m @tramtrist Been catching up on his takes. I’ve not interacted with him in a fair while (he’s never been one to be receptive to constructive feedback) but I was last left with the impression that he was a decent guy with a blind spot where his project was concerned.

Now? Yeah, both he and his project are best avoided. There’s nothing objective about a fedi “no fly list” that has little accountability and no standards for inclusion. There is space for a list of bad actors but he’s not capable of the objectivity required to handle it.

@marcan @m @tramtrist
a complication:
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/111008000349834358

...so if he did get racist abuse directed at him from tech dot lgbt accounts, i probably wouldn't be able to see it.

so i don't know whether he's actually seen attacks from tech dot lgbt, but if i were the target of a campaign like the one he describes, i probably wouldn't take it well.

(which is not to say that he's right, but it also doesn't seem inconsistent with what you'd expect from anyone who was recently targeted)

@marcan @m @tramtrist and it seems like one of the goals of an attack like that (including a DDoS) could be to make the target seem like an unreasonable person, even when the target is really acting like most people would under the circumstances (and those circumstances may be difficult to take inventory of from an outside perspective)

@JamesWidman @m @tramtrist You can see all (non-blocked) replies if you click through to the original instance. It's not invisible.

Regardless of how many random replies he got, and even including the DDoS, that pales in comparison to the shit KF do, and making that comparison, especially to an instance that clearly does not condone such attacks, is absolutely vile and repulsive. KF literally kill people. I lost a friend that way, and making that comparison is absolutely not okay.

Never mind the completely polite, technical comment he got about his DNS record screwup. No matter how much abuse you've gotten, there is absolutely no excuse to reply with abuse and mockery yourself to something completely unrelated where you are clearly, objectively, in the wrong. He doubled down on it and publicly mocked the reporters later. Not a hint of humility. He was wrong, and he just threw around ad hominems instead of admitting it.

He's been demonstrating a pattern of conduct, even before the DDoS nonsense started, that makes it evident he is in no way, shape, or form fit to lead any kind of community action. It's in no way excusable as someone reacting under abuse and pressure. His behavior does not line up with that. His behavior rather is that of a narcissist with a massive ego, who is incapable of taking criticism in any form. His original intentions may have been good, but he has very, very clearly demonstrated he is not the right kind of person to lead the kind of community action he is trying to lead.

@marcan @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist Hey! 🙂 Since I am reasonably likely to be the person you're referring to with regard to Ro's DNS issue, here's my take on the whole thing, in a freshly-baked thread;

https://ngmx.com/@mejofi/111113089785209798

It might be a good idea to pause for a bit, with your current narrative, and check why it is exactly that you are so outraged by a black man speaking his mind on his own instance, even if he's being an asshole.

Because right now you are adding fuel to the wrong fire, and it's probably a good idea to reflect a bit.

Thanks!

@mejofi @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist I'm adding fuel to the fire because he is literally equating a positive, LGBT-friendly instance with an online cesspool who literally murdered a close friend of mine. I had to go to the goddamn police station to report information about the circumstances around their death.

So yeah, maybe being Black is not an excuse for that bullshit. The color of your skin (and the oppression that may invite) is not a magic shield that deflects all criticism no matter how horrible the stuff you say is. This isn't a zero-sum game. "The world is unfair and evil to me so I'm allowed to be unfair and evil to others" is not how any of this works.

@marcan @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist Yeah, I get it, that is a terrible thing to have to go through, and I am sorry you had to. If it’s a rough trigger for you, just block the man and his entire instance, it’s just him on there.

But where you are dropping the ball is in your comparisons; ‘tech.lgbt’ fucked up, which they admitted, and their attempts at fixing it have been half-baked at best. They’re not the innocents you make them out to be.

Also, don’t pit KF against racism and anti-blackness. Even if it was a competition, which it isn’t, it would be one you’d lose.

@marcan @mejofi @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist Well, anyone who's comparing wholesome fedi instance (such as tech.lgbt) with KF definitely isn't right in their head. I've got quite a few people following me from that instance and they're all great folks.

Color of someone's skin absolutely doesn't give them any right to be an asshole, and *spoiler alert* anyone can be racist, not just white people. Anyone who worked with people across the world or traveled a lot will understand this.

Karma pays back, so you always should treat others just how you would like to be treated. There's a reason why racists, bigots, supremacists and so on are pathetic, miserable people. They treat others like shit, so people treat them like shit. Simple as that.

@elly @marcan @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist The admins and moderators of that wholesome fedi instance you mention fucked up, as mentioned in the second post of the thread I linked to.

Here is their own admission;

https://tech.lgbt/@mods/111071025235090191

which links to this post;

https://info.tech.lgbt/2023/09/15/addressing-concerns-rage-love-simcha-lgbt.html

The people on ‘tech.lgbt’ are great, and over here, we have had no problems with them. But we are very white, like most fedi instances, and thus not likely to encounter the problems they themselves admit to.

Perhaps consider you might be in the same position?

@mejofi This isn't a "fuckup". That's "we've got an influx of new users and new issues, let's discuss how we can tackle this problem".

My fedi instance is a small instance used mostly by friends (and friends of friends), hosted by a very close friend of mine. In fact, i've seen hardware hosting this instance and I have SSH access to that machine. I don't think we'd ever reach the same amount of users as tech.lgbt.

That being said, I have admin rights on Chrultrabook Project's Discord (roughly ~8k people). Our rules in this regard are very strict, especially due to amount of minors in the community. No bigotry, no racism etc, no unsolicited DMs. Doing any of the things I just mentioned will guarantee a quick and permanent ban.

*This kind* of people isn't welcome in any spaces. I've had an unpleasant encounter with those (excuse my language, but can't describe them in any other way) sick fucks when I was a minor, and one of my friends... you get the idea.

@mejofi @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist There's "fucking up", and then there's killing people. They are not the same. Unless someone died as a result of tech.lgbt fucking up, I stand by my assessment that the comparison is vile and Ro should be ashamed for making it.

@m

Looking at that conversation, I suspect that the actual reason Ro wouldn't engage with you was that you started criticising before you'd understood how TBS works:

"your personal biases are seeping into the list, which are not all for the protection of black people. At least, that's the view that's being shared amongst some members of the community."

Those rumours are predicated on the concept that TBS's blocklist draws upon Ro's own blocklist, which AIUI is not the case.

@unchartedworlds I'll admit this was my bad, since I came in with the experience from hearing and seeing the first version of TBS. I still believe it doesn't justify his hostile response but this could've been worded better.

@unchartedworlds Boosting this for transparency.

https://ubiqueros.com/notes/9jwdqkezan

that's what i found, and i've seen this prickly hedgehog exaggerated behaviour in the past and been on the receiving end of some construed shit because of it

so all the rest of the complaints from that source become tainted by the same exaggeration factor

@marcan @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist

@marcan @tramtrist who was this?

@lbruno @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist There is no source. Everything I've said is based on *my* personal observations of his behavior (which have been shared in various channels as screenshots and direct links).

The point where he compared tech.lgbt to KF is where he lost absolutely every single shred of credibility he might have left, as far as I'm concerned.

@marcan

source tainted as in “complaints from Ro are tainted”

i mean yeah the KF comparison is obviously not rooted in reality, but what i mean it's that going from “hey postmaster@, i'm having delivery problems because you put a CNAME at the apex” --> “you're being creepy” shows exactly why this person can't ever be allowed to evaluate whether someone/instance belongs in a blacklist

the KF comparison means i don't have to listen to the eejit at all

@JamesWidman @m @tramtrist

@lbruno @JamesWidman @m @tramtrist Whoops, sorry, I misunderstood your reply. I think we're on the same page then :)

@marcan

aye, agreed ;) felt like we were agreeing violently -- like some usenet noobs

as a former out-MX person, this blocklist effort is so poorly done it's annoying

@JamesWidman @m @tramtrist