I wish there was a way to convert an existing #Fedora install to #Silverblue.

@vwbusguy https://github.com/ublue-os/upgrade-tools

@vwbusguy ymmv, dragons, etc.

@vwbusguy Out of curiosity, what benefits are you looking after in #Silverblue? I see lot of mentions of it, but I've never used it. Sounds complicated for daily use. Makes me want to try it somewhere for a moment...

@ikkeT Depends on what you're doing. I have an old laptop that I pretty much just use infrequently for a browser with good battery life. Updates and upgrades are just a simple reboot with Silverblue.

@vwbusguy ... Given that I don't even like flatpaks, as from command line they are not nice to use (would need alia fir each command), and things like copy paste doesn't necessarily work etc small irritating things.

@ikkeT @vwbusguy most of your bash tools go in toolboxes, not flatpaks.

@gnuplusmatt @vwbusguy So your terminal sits in constantly running container, or do you run commands via podman per each? How do you run some application with parameters? Like `code foobar.yaml`, or `podman run -ti ... code-container/code foobar.yaml`.

@gnuplusmatt @vwbusguy Where do you get the benefit of that compared to dnf install "tool" ?

@ikkeT @vwbusguy you can enter a toolbox from your terminal, or create a shortcut that just opens a toolbox terminal.

I have a few "toolbox run" aliases in my bashrc. eg

alias telnet='toolbox run telnet'

I can treat that like the telnet command in my standard bash session. but I could also "toolbox enter" and then get a session inside the toolbox environment and do the same thing

@ikkeT @vwbusguy the benefit is the immutable base. Toolboxes are just mutable sandboxes for doing work in.

I use them as packaging environments, when I'm done with build dependencies I can delete them without having to clean up my base system. I have an arch toolbox that runs some packages from the AUR. I have a rootful container for some things that need root.

I use the immutable system to test upcoming releases. I can rebase to rawhide to test packages etc.

@ikkeT @vwbusguy for an every day user, there is a safety net that the system is an atomic image, that works before it reaches your machine. Only user space can change. It makes for a more reliable, repeatable setup

@ikkeT That said, I use #Kinoite on my office workstation in my dayjob and while it did require getting used to some different workflows, I'm very happy with it on this side of things. Once setup, the "daily" stuff comes together nicely. Most things are flatpak. I tend to use rpm-ostree more than toolbx, but still use it for development specific environments (ie, RHEL runtime on a Fedora host).

@ikkeT @gnuplusmatt RPMs that are overlayed get factored into the immutable base and included with regular updates, so even major Fedora version upgrades are just a simple reboot and you can even revert.

@gnuplusmatt @ikkeT This. For most regular users, Silverblue isn't unlike having a ChromeOS-like experience, except with a Fedora environment and much better privacy defaults.

@vwbusguy @gnuplusmatt I'm used to fedora-iot and rhel-coreos, but I've never seen silverblue. I think you now pushed my curiosity over the edge, I'll use the converter to try it on my second fedora laptop 😁

@ikkeT @gnuplusmatt Toolbox on Silverblue is much more useful than the weird one shipped in RHCOS. There's also #Distrobox which essentially does the same thing but supports a much wider variety of platforms where toolbox is Red Hat specific.

@vwbusguy @ikkeT @gnuplusmatt Essential features in #Distrobox include the ability to set a custom home directory and create a desktop launcher.

@passthejoe @gnuplusmatt @ikkeT Yeah, I was a bit disappointed that got abruptly dropped from toolbox. Looks like the community did significant work on a proposal and prototype for it to be arbitrarily shut down by one of the RH devs, unfortunately. One of the areas Distrobox clearly pulled ahead in terms of being more practical.

@vwbusguy @ikkeT Flooding the system with packages always makes me nervous. Flatpaks and Distrobox are core to my current Debian system.

@vwbusguy @ikkeT I've been doing a lot of experimenting with Raspberry Pi lately, and when I have a failed project, I just reimage rather than try to untangle the hundreds of packages I installed along with all the config files.

I don't know how to handle this kind of thing on a production server. Alter #scale20x, the answer seemed to be #Kubernetes.

@passthejoe @vwbusguy I work using kube, I have no problem reasoning containers on servers. Production is often replicated/rebuilt using combinations of templates, satellite and ansible.

@ikkeT @passthejoe Same. Podman + Systemd is also very useful for things that don't need all the overhead of Kubernetes.

@vwbusguy @passthejoe @gnuplusmatt hello from #silverblue 👋😀 Now need to figure out how to make it on par with my f38 backup. If I recall right, flatpak apps don't find configs from the same place as traditional rpms. Also rpm-ostree didn't find wireguard... Need to start poking around. Installing first toolbox.

@vwbusguy @passthejoe @gnuplusmatt ah, it was wireguard-tools instead of wireguard. Gnome keyring won't open with the same password :/

@vwbusguy @passthejoe @gnuplusmatt and even that was my mistake. Apparently the "auto-login" had somehow changed it, so once I enabled auto-login on this too, it worked. I'm happy just logging with disk crypto.

@ikkeT @passthejoe @gnuplusmatt

@ikkeT @passthejoe @gnuplusmatt You can still search with `dnf-3 search`