Does nobody know what the world solidarity means? I’m so fucking sick of fedi.

You have to include men in your feminism. You don’t get to just say “kill all men” and call it a day.

And I’m not betraying feminism by saying this, men have a place in this world, for fucks sake.

@julia what's TLA?

@alina social.translunar.academy. Fedi instance themed around a webcomic written by the admin.

@julia yea, and what about trans men? wonder what the opinion would be for that

@david whether trans men are included or excluded in “kill all men”- both out comes are bad!

One invalidates them as men, and the other is… it accepts them as men but it makes you a piece of shit

@julia Feminism has to involve including and supporting men. If you don’t you’re not promoting equality; you’re promoting superiority. And that’s precisely the thing that misogynists accuse feminism of wanting.

@julia feminism started as a movement to grant equal rights for both men and women. what people nowadays preach as feminsim is no better than what the men did before women has decent rights

@autumn Let me clarify- men and women aren’t on an equal playing field, even today. Women still have rights being denied to them, though they’re less egregious than the ones that started the movement. Women deserve equality with men. But they don’t deserve superiority.

@julia this is what i've been saying. the word feminism has been appropriated by closet fascists and people need to reclaim what it originally stood for

@autumn @julia
If I can be honest this is kind of an extremely online take? Like yeah sure on certain sides of certain instances on a niche social media protocol people who call themselves feminists are kind of exclusionary but in the real world I would bet you money that most people that call themselves feminists are *far* from being "closet fascists"*. This is especially true for feminists in the global south where women's liberation has been fundamentally inclusive from the very beginning.


*This might not be correct for the UK specifically, more testing needed.

@AppleAmps @julia the UK is full of fascists anyway and most feminists on the street in my city at least are TERFs

@autumn @julia
I mean I'm sorry that your city is like that but please don't act like that's an issue with feminism as a whole when it is pretty much only concentrated within some feminist groups in like 2-4 European countries max.

@AppleAmps @julia i never said it was feminism as a whole. i'm specifically talking about those who preach feminism whilst having fascist viewpoints, especially about men

@autumn @julia
Oh! Alright then, I just took "what people nowadays preach as feminism" to mean it generally, and as a pretty ardent feminist (from a country in which it has always been really inclusive! 🇦🇷) I got a bit defensive.

@AppleAmps @julia no problem, i have trouble wording things correctly. no harm intended

@autumn @julia

this is literally a decades old mens rights activist talking point, and anyone spreading it is either an active misogynist or a pick me, this and calling feminists fascists like you did further down was the building blocks of the entire alt right gamergate movement. its functionally identical to republican women claiming that the left is trying to take away their right to an imagined trad wife life.

@autumn @julia
but also to focus in on the other bit, "what people nowadays preach as feminsim is no better than what the men did before women has decent rights" is a monstrous rewriting of reality. have men been stripped of the right to vote by feminism? do men routinely suffer years of domestic abuse from women because of feminism? are working class men routinely sexually trafficked by women because of feminism? is their a society wide systemic protection of women who domestically abuse and rape men because of feminism? do women force men to have their children in their wombs for 9 months and imprison them if they refuse because of feminism? do you even see any women advocating for doing these things, even as a joke, in the name of feminism?

@autumn @julia the pseudo woke appeal to just avoid hurting peoples feelings by discussing systems they benefit from will always come back around to villanising anyone who even critiques these systems as themselves being worse than the systems they critique and purposely whitewashing the systems.

if you do this, regardless of your motivations, you function exactly the same way as a misogynist purposely playing defense for the oppression of women would, and i dont really think theres much need for a distinction between the pick me who casts down other women so that men will like her more (like so many right wing women do) and the man who casts them down so that he can exert control over them.

@autumn @julia show me where in the world men experience systemic oppression by "feminists" that's just MRA and gamergate.

@julia egh, looking at replies on remote instance and good thing I blocked xenofem - big oof

ig I’ll have to block TLA as well even tho I have connections there

@alice @julia is it really necessary to block all of TLA over this?

@alice @julia I say as the admins of both instances where the drama originated apologize

@LivingCooki @julia I mean dunno about drama but like I see all the stuff linked in https://social.atiusamy.com/notes/a1pe8ji8rop70212 and I see the replies here which are more or less on par with xenofem wrt being horrible…

@alice @julia Oh hey I was just writing a reply to that post when you sent this

That post is very misleading and in bad faith

Also this thread contains 1 reply from 1 TLA user. I agree that xenofemme is bad, but TLA is not xenofemme

@LivingCooki @julia I mean no, I checked the links and I don’t like them

anyway, why should I argue about what I do/don’t feel comfortable with? It’s my single user instance, I block whoever I want

@alice @julia because you're about to block me

@LivingCooki @julia tbh seeing you defend pretty blatantly unpleasant stuff stuff is not helping your case

I’m not blocking it rn, but I mean I am gonna be a lot more careful wrt future interactions

@julia why would in want equality with men? The world men built is terrible. I don't want equality with men, I want liberation from patriarchy

Treating equality like it just exists outside of any context is how every liberal country slides back into fascim again and again. Liberal feminism, which is what your pushing here, the kind of feminism that the world empires are comfortable promoting, has no answer for why that happens except the boogeyman of prejudice. Equality will always lead back around to different but equal. Equality is respectfully knowing your place before the pre existing system because there is nothing worthwhile in the system to achieve equality with, but getting the opportunity to reinforce it in your own unique way. Equality is a scam.

So, do you know what solidarity means? You know what """Solidarity""" between men and women looks like? Any traditionalist patriarchal society. Without addressing the system directly, there is no solidarity. They have a word for "solidarity" between classes of people, for example between the owning class and the working class:

fascism

@julia 🔪…

Wowe, pain

First off, I mean I probably missed something today, a lotta things actually. Lots of shit happened in my life today, so forgive me for not being the terminally online cop of the instance I’m on wth

Second

…

WHAT?

“You have to include men in your feminism”

UNPACK THIS

Srs

You don’t just get to say this and move on w/ a hyper-cutting sentiment

Like, to what part of esp TLA’s alleged sort of TLA feminism (and please, as if TLA is a unified force of an instance) are we actively excluding men?

Or is it getting to you that TLA doesn’t care to center or heighten the experiences of cis het men?

Like… I also get that I’m an odd voice in the TLA and affiliated instance space; I didn’t come from xenofem, and I don’t fully align with the ones that run the instance I am on, and yeah, while I don’t front it a whole lot, I mean I got that transmasc transfem fuckery in me; if you really, really, REALLY gotta paint a broad brush over TLA, I AM the contrarian here, def some portion toxicly, but a more major portion being like, that’s JUST how I’ve been, irrespective of the general vibes to whatever nebulously gets categorized as TLA feminism

But omg

Omg

Srs

What are you on about?

WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT

Esp with TLA

Like,

Your “analysis” is pitifully devoid of an actual engagement with power

“Kill all men” sentiments for instance NEED to be read with an actual read onto the power of those statements

Cuz sentiments and literalism do not always line up

Rather

The extremity of the sentiments are also readable as sentiments of frustration

Especially LIVED frustration

And copping folx on those sentiments

And ESPECIALLY copping WITHOUT RECIEPTS

Is just

Ahem

I can do it too

✨transmisogyny✨

My reciept: the post I am replying to

Because statements like this, of a judgement of sentiment, done by one who has some sort of social power due to following

Is frankly the exercize of your power (conscious or not), to put the burden of defense on a v notably transfem heavy instance

In particular to then share that sentiment with folx more readily aligned with you

To malign a group of folx

Srs

Check yourself

And fren, buddy, pal

As if I keep men outta my life

As if I don’t also hold respect for SOME men

Not Men(tm) all men

But SOME

Who EARN trust with me

Because of the history of how patriarchy (and ESPECIALLY racialized patriarchy) has fucked me over, again and again

Men have a place in this world, sure

But men should be chekcing themselves

And frankly

For a lotta us on TLA

Our experiences have been that men more often than not

DO NOT DO THAT

Precisely because of patriarchy

And while you might implicitly have the sentiment “not all men” in your thing

Because you cowardly are keeping that in subtext, while trying to cop us on whatever fucking subtext you have put onto us as TLA

I have no more charitability to give for your words

@thedandeliongrove I’m too drunk to reply to this right now sorry

@julia 🔪Then why TF did you decide to start shit?

When u sober up, hope you check yourself, cuz that’s no fucking excuse

@thedandeliongrove this was nine hours ago, and I didn’t even start it

. I’m drunk now so I’m not gonna answer properly because I jant

@thedandeliongrove @ "kill all men" should NEVER be said

@thedandeliongrove nah chill the fuck out on julia.

@julia is TLA on record saying this, particularly in a serious manner?
because that's sad, if it happened.
There are plenty of toxic men in the world but there are also a lot of nice ones that I think mean well, but that i just don't share a lot of interests with
still men and women are much more similar than different

@wyatt8740 @julia not quite 'kill them', and not too sure about seriousness, but winter did *literally* say she doesn't consider them people.

which is pretty much when i stopped and began questioning like 'hey maybe this isn't actually just 'MRA nonsense' .. like uhm i dont think its anti-feminist and transmisogyny to not be cool with dehumanization?

https://kitty.social/notes/9tac852ebuhi01gd

@Li @julia damn. Well that's not fun to discover. :(