@byte I like that you can use it by telnetting the server, kinda like smtp and all those. more protocols should be like that tbh

@byte Funny is like message edition in IRC ends up done with prefixing by * or using s;pattern;replacement; in more geeky channels, life finds a way sort of thing.

@byte genuinely the only messaging thing i actually enjoy using . the only one that has clients that dont makr me want to throw all computers in a sewer anyways

@byte yea

i have gripes with everything !

xmpp? shit clients !
matrix ? too complex , israelware
signal ? sketchy , centralized
telegram ? same , 10x
whatsapp ? what if meta tried to make an xmpp client

@byte i should try delta too . rn im going w xmpp for private messages (omemo) , and irc for public rooms (the way one would use discord ! irc is so much better ! )

@byte just blast some mfer with a raw stream of TCP/IP packets

Who needs formatting? We make funny faces with parentheses, fuck you!!!

@flower @byte im sorry but “dino is good” is a stockholm syndrome take . its barely acceptable , and its the best desktop client around

monocles is conversationsware . conversations is actively holding the protocol hostage by not implementing omemo2

@flower @byte @fiore MONOCLES

IS LITERALLY

JUST

CONVERSATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@fif @byte @flower https://brain.worm.pink/notice/B1aRjgY8IFwU9bF8Zk

@fiore @byte @flower we stan https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.atalk.android/

@flower @fif @byte i use it . its usable , more than vanilla conversations

@fif @byte @flower does it do good omemo or only bad omemo

@fiore @byte @flower @fif no one does good omemo

@fiore @byte @flower i think it does a newer version of the omemo standard but its still not good

also this app is unusable.

@fiore @byte @flower actually yeah it uses the latest omemo spec

@fiore @byte @fif @flower WTF, they implement the latest omemo (0.9.0)

total aTalk W

@kimapr @fiore @byte @fif @flower aTalk mentioned

@kimapr @byte @flower @fif kaidan (kdeware (bad)) and profanity (worst tui ever made )

@fiore @byte @flower @fif what the fuck about gajim?? gajim rocks

@fif @byte @flower based . might switch to it

@fiore @byte @flower @fif profanity is the worst omemo implementation i’ve ever seen it literally doesn’t work

@shroomie @byte @flower @fif no im sorry gajim is a mess i deeply resent its existance

@fiore @byte @flower @fif why

@fiore @byte @fif @flower they call it profanity because that’s what will come out of your mouth when you try to use it

@kimapr @byte @fiore @flower it would crash way too much on my phone i uninstalled :(

@kimapr @byte @fiore @flower they implement new xmpp specs across the board it seems compared to other apps, its sad that i remember it sucking

@kimapr @byte @fiore @flower kaidan doesnt even use the latest omemo spec, they use 0.8.3

@fif @byte @fiore @flower at least it’s not fucking 0.3.0

looking at Conversations and Gajim here

@shroomie @byte @flower @fif personal gripe i suppose . it feels bad to me

@fiore @byte

Jami?

@klu9 @byte huh?

@fiore @byte @flower @kimapr profanity actually does use omemo 0.3.0 in its DOAP, no where in the repo can i see that it doesnt. i heard it supported new omemo spec from soatok's blog post but he was spreading misinfo. maybe he saw omemo 0.3.0 supported since profanity 0.7.0 and misread it as omemo 0.7.0 was supported when its not.

@fiore @byte

Another IM (& VOIP etc) system maybe to try, formerly known as GNU Ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jami_%28software%29?wprov=sfla1

@klu9 @byte interssting ..

@fif @byte @flower @kimapr ive been spresding misinformation all this time ???

@fiore @byte @flower @kimapr

@byte I would argue honestly IRC has stood by its principles far better than similar protocols

SMTP has continually nailed on extra protocols to make it less awful over the past several decades, and it is worse

IRC has no features but at least it hasn't turned into a true abomination

@byte Just pasted that into my long term IRC channel. :)

@fiore @byte @flower @kimapr so there are 3 clients which support a newer spec than 0.3.0

aTalk
Kaidan
Moxxy android client, never heard of this one before but it in fact does. last commit 1 year ago. RIP https://github.com/PapaTutuWawa/omemo_dart

look at this https://github.com/mierenhoop/picomemo

@phnt @byte @fiore @flower @fif i was heartbroken when i updated and it started using libadwaita but it’s worth it

@byte the cockroaches will be IRCing over HF radio after whatever apocalypse wipes out humanity.

It's the messenger that will outlive all others. Like cockroaches it's not pretty but also nearly impossible to kill.

@byte and it’s still fucking better than most things that came afterwards

i’ve been around the block enough to see how much it sucks, too. those are not empty words, I still like it the most from all the alternatives :|

@byte multiplayer notepad, my beloved.

@byte Why would a chat IM protocol need to edit or delete messages? Jut send another message.

@byte Just*

@anthropy @byte it’s a simple enough protocol that I managed to implement the basics in 50ish lines of bash builtins once. it for sure occupies a really unique spot on the complexity/functionality pareto boundary.

https://gist.github.com/jaseg/8e56071398ce814511b8

@byte

Every social media system which uses @ is riding on the back of IRC.

@byte

It's also the ONLY means of communication that's suitable for mission critical things like saving CMDRs who ran out of fuel on the far side of the Galaxy and are on emergency life support.

The Fuel Rats of Elite:Dangerous have a FAQ why they use IRC and not something else, like Discord:

https://confluence.fuelrats.com/pages/releaseview.action?pageId=3637755

@byte @mav And unlike these lesser protocols, at least one client that lets you hit people with a fish.

@fif @byte @flower @kimapr OOOOO OH MY GOD THIS IS HUGE

@byte i’m so happy that ircv3 exists and is modernizing the protocol, and that we no longer need bouncers for QoL stuff like user persistence, multiple device support and log replay/fetch

also the protocol doesn’t really stop you from bolting on features in your client. there’s nothing stopping you from, say, linking IRC channels to mumble channels. KDE’s konversation literally has multiplayer paint via DCC

@lanodan @byte IRC messages also only fit so many bytes. you wouldn’t want to send graphics or even just compressed drawing commands that way

@fiore @byte @flower if conversations implemented omemo 2 then kaidan would be a more usable client than dino

it sure as fuck has better UX

@mia @byte @flower i still wouldnt use it becausd its kdeware , but yea i agree

@byte I once implemented a simple IRC client in a visual programming language ( @vvvv ). Just connecting, joining a room and then displaying the messages that were thrown at me. It is such a nice little protocol ❤️.

@azonenberg @byte

Obligatory XKCD

https://xkcd.com/1782/

@byte then prepare to be surprised what @delta did to the ultimate cockroach of them all: e-mail.

@rmd1023 @byte @mav The bigger revelation to me is that mIRC is still around, and still maintained (new update last month!).

@fiore @byte There are many communities on #XMPP which would appreciate more people participating…

http://search.jabber.network/tags/

I join #IRC channels through XMPP too, using Biboumi…

https://contrapunctus.codeberg.page/the-quick-and-easy-guide-to-xmpp.html#bridging-to-irc

However, I want people to move off IRC, so the majority of my activity tends to be on unbridged XMPP channels.

@contrapunctus @byte why would you want people to move off of irc ?

@lanodan @byte

Most #Jabber/#XMPP clients do support "XEP-0308: Last Message Correction" and many also have "XEP-0424: Message Retraction" nowadays 🙂

@fif @fiore @byte @flower @kimapr

And #Libervia by @Goffi!

@fiore @byte

There are more options:

https://mov.im/blog/debacle/76bf90a4-5f59-4962-92db-6cd859f42ec9

I'll stick with #Jabber/#XMPP, because I'm used to it and there are bridges to IRC, Matrix, SMS.