Amps
Posts
3824Following
689Followers
337(Lenguaje femenino y neutro, porfa)
Peronist with Kicillofist characteristics
I'm 18 but still, don't be gross in my mentions.
My avatar is a pixel art bush with legs, tired eyes, and a rose on their head.
My banner is three girls from the anime Lucky Star talking.
Proud humanist.
All my posts have alt-text but some of my boosts don't, sorry!
(The edit to the Walking Bushie in my bio was done by @h@besties.house, check her out!)
HRT since: 9/1/2025 (or 1/9/2025 if you're from the US)
@fiore
Y'know, actually iirc what I've been saying about Deltarune here goes double for Homestuck vis a vis June Egbert, but I haven't read it so like, idrk.
Y'know, actually iirc what I've been saying about Deltarune here goes double for Homestuck vis a vis June Egbert, but I haven't read it so like, idrk.
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@fiore
Oh, no worries, jaja. This has been a really nice, thoughtful discussion, so, uh, thanks for that!
I do wanna add that my comparison of Undertale/Deltarune with other popular all-ages media from the 10's isn't purely aesthetic or meant to deride it, though! Adventure Time is like, my favorite shit ever so it comes as high praise.
Oh, no worries, jaja. This has been a really nice, thoughtful discussion, so, uh, thanks for that!
I do wanna add that my comparison of Undertale/Deltarune with other popular all-ages media from the 10's isn't purely aesthetic or meant to deride it, though! Adventure Time is like, my favorite shit ever so it comes as high praise.
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@shroomie @fiore
Joan, please read the stuff I've been writing, this is literally what I mean. Just because you can *interpret* a character as being trans doesn't mean they experience transness in the text, literally my main and only point has been about how most people write trans experiences through allegory and letting readers connect the dots instead of doing so explicitly, jesus christ.
Joan, please read the stuff I've been writing, this is literally what I mean. Just because you can *interpret* a character as being trans doesn't mean they experience transness in the text, literally my main and only point has been about how most people write trans experiences through allegory and letting readers connect the dots instead of doing so explicitly, jesus christ.
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@fiore
I mean, to be fair I didn't say I thought Deltarune *should* be anything, I said it's interesting how Toby Fox and others in his pop-cultural space (the people making Adventure Time, Steven Universe, y'know, that stuff) create stories with explicitly queer characters that don't really have explicitly queer experiences. Also, idk, I don't think it would *hurt* to have some nod to that stuff in Deltarune, doesn't have to be anything big.
I mean, to be fair I didn't say I thought Deltarune *should* be anything, I said it's interesting how Toby Fox and others in his pop-cultural space (the people making Adventure Time, Steven Universe, y'know, that stuff) create stories with explicitly queer characters that don't really have explicitly queer experiences. Also, idk, I don't think it would *hurt* to have some nod to that stuff in Deltarune, doesn't have to be anything big.
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@fiore
Ok ok that's true I totally forgot about her. I think if I'd had written her it'd be a bit *more* explicit but for what it is I think it works well.
Ok ok that's true I totally forgot about her. I think if I'd had written her it'd be a bit *more* explicit but for what it is I think it works well.
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@fiore
That's true! And I don't think it's a flaw with Deltarune that Toriel doesn't look to the camera and dictate her experiences with Kris' coming out, but frankly I'm a bit tired of queer existence in popular media being exclusively communicated tacitly by way of themes and allegory. It feels like if Detroit: Become Human was the only accepted way of touching on race, y'know?
That's true! And I don't think it's a flaw with Deltarune that Toriel doesn't look to the camera and dictate her experiences with Kris' coming out, but frankly I'm a bit tired of queer existence in popular media being exclusively communicated tacitly by way of themes and allegory. It feels like if Detroit: Become Human was the only accepted way of touching on race, y'know?
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Amps
AppleAmps
@shroomie
And you can see this in action! Queer-focused discussions of Deltarune always have to exist within the realm of theories and assumptions: Ralsei is an egg, Toriel and Carol are homophobic, Mancountry represents Kris' transition, because if you stick to what's explicit in the text there aren't any discussions to be had.
And you can see this in action! Queer-focused discussions of Deltarune always have to exist within the realm of theories and assumptions: Ralsei is an egg, Toriel and Carol are homophobic, Mancountry represents Kris' transition, because if you stick to what's explicit in the text there aren't any discussions to be had.
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@shroomie
Frankly the Toriel bit is approaching fanon but either way, that's my point. If Kris was transplanted to our reality they'd obviously be trans because to be where they are they'd have had to transition, but within the text they aren't because they didn't. What I'm talking about here is that the trans experience necessitates transition, a transgression against cispatriarchal social norms. Within a fictional setting where those norms don't exist, and someone really can just spawn in being non-binary, trans-ness isn't a concept that applies. That's also my point with Undyne and Alphys, if they existed on Earth they'd be queer but because within the Underground queer people are treated as straight, their fictional relationship is culturally closer to irl straight pairings than irl gay pairings.
My point is that UTDR has a lot of representation where the character in question is technically gay or trans but not a lot that reflects the experience of being queer.
Frankly the Toriel bit is approaching fanon but either way, that's my point. If Kris was transplanted to our reality they'd obviously be trans because to be where they are they'd have had to transition, but within the text they aren't because they didn't. What I'm talking about here is that the trans experience necessitates transition, a transgression against cispatriarchal social norms. Within a fictional setting where those norms don't exist, and someone really can just spawn in being non-binary, trans-ness isn't a concept that applies. That's also my point with Undyne and Alphys, if they existed on Earth they'd be queer but because within the Underground queer people are treated as straight, their fictional relationship is culturally closer to irl straight pairings than irl gay pairings.
My point is that UTDR has a lot of representation where the character in question is technically gay or trans but not a lot that reflects the experience of being queer.
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@detondev
That's a fair reading but it's hard for me to believe it won't just stay as an allegory, or like, be so fantastical it won't really register as explicit transness.
That's a fair reading but it's hard for me to believe it won't just stay as an allegory, or like, be so fantastical it won't really register as explicit transness.
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Amps
repeated
repeated
enargeia
detondev@social.linux.pizzaI am in a piratey mood today.
Give me some pirate links.
(I'm talking real life pirates, but digital piracy is fine too :3)
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Amps
AppleAmps
Something I find interesting about the way Toby Fox and people that occupy that space handle queerness is the fact that, like, none of their characters are really *queer,* per se.
Like, in the original sense of the word, I mean. Alphys and Undyne are, in a literal sense, lesbians, but the society in which they exist doesn't view lesbian relationships as strange or abnormal so their love lacks any of the inherent friction of real life same-sex pairings. You could make the Royal Guards a buff4buff straight couple and literally nothing would change.
This is why I feel UTDR has problems depicting transness in any real way. The main character is nonbinary but seemingly they just spawned into the world like that, because actually *showing* transition in the way people experience it requires that friction, something the idyllic post-queerphobic society of Hometown can't handle.
Like, in the original sense of the word, I mean. Alphys and Undyne are, in a literal sense, lesbians, but the society in which they exist doesn't view lesbian relationships as strange or abnormal so their love lacks any of the inherent friction of real life same-sex pairings. You could make the Royal Guards a buff4buff straight couple and literally nothing would change.
This is why I feel UTDR has problems depicting transness in any real way. The main character is nonbinary but seemingly they just spawned into the world like that, because actually *showing* transition in the way people experience it requires that friction, something the idyllic post-queerphobic society of Hometown can't handle.
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